Arizona Real Estate Notebook

54 responses so far ↓

• 1 Peter Fork // Dec 14, 2007 at 2:13 pm

  Nice graphs! It seems you could say there are two types of markets in the Phoenix area. The first one is the Phoenix/Tempe/Scottsdale area, were the central attractions are (downtown/ASU/luxury).

  The second area is the suburbs (Mesa, Chandler, Glendale, Sun City, etc.). It seems the decoupling of the two markets happened around the year 2000.

• 2 John Wake - Real Estate // Dec 14, 2007 at 3:55 pm

  Good point and there is definitely a third group which doesn’t show up on the graphs because they are too small, the Anthems, Queen Creeks and Maricopas that have killer competition from new home builders. I would expect that their prices would have fallen further than any cities on the graphs.

• 3 REI Pipeline // Dec 14, 2007 at 4:19 pm

  This is great info here. I believe there is going to be a large difference between West Valley and East Valley within the next 10 years. Overall, West Valley is fairly land locked- except for going out to the outskirts. East Valley still has quite a bit to fill into (Namely, Chandler, Gilbert) before it hits the point the West Valley is at. Not to mention the overall age of those areas. It’ll be interesting to see!

• 4 Brian McMorris // Dec 14, 2007 at 10:19 pm

  What this graph really shows is that there is a long term relationship between prices in different parts of the Valley. These relationships have really been in place for decades. Scottsdale/Paradise Valley have always received a premium for location and amenities.

  It is not rational that just in the last two years those relationships, expressed as a ratio, would suddenly and permanently widen. Either the lower priced markets must increase back towards the long term ratio with the high priced markets, or the high price markets must accelerate down to catch up with the decline of the low priced markets.

  Temporary supply (overbuilding) inequities may cause a temporary diversion. But the employment economics of the Valley (as John frequently points out) ultimately dictate average home price via affordability, plus or minus the location factor which remains constant as a percentage over time.

• 5 John Wake - Real Estate // Dec 14, 2007 at 10:35 pm

  Brian, that is always an interesting question for real estate investors - Is Chandler a better or a worse place to invest than Scottsdale because prices have fallen more in Chandler than in Scottsdale?

  Has Chandler made price adjustments that Scottsdale will have to make in the future?

  Or is the demand higher and supply more fix in Scottsdale making prices more stable?

• 6 REI Pipeline // Dec 15, 2007 at 6:14 am

  huh. Great points. However, I do believe there is a ton more that affects the housing prices beyond job supply. It’s a combination of interest rates, job growth, population growth, builder’s permits, and about a dozen other factors all mixed in. As an investor myself, I look at my exit strategy- ultimately, you have to sell the property, whether next month, or in 40 years (or when I die and my heirs decide to sell it), there’s always an exit strategy. So I look at what’s the easiest house to sell, in what location & price range? Does most of the population want, or can afford to live in Scottsdale? Paradise Valley? Or, is the majority of the population looking for a 3/2 or 4/2, centrally located and close to freeway access, in the average price range? My long term rentals are just that- the cookie cutter house that everyone wants and can afford to live in. Those will ALWAYS be in demand, no matter what the market is doing.

  Most of the price drops you’re seeing in charts and graphs are a direct result of the higher end homes rapidly dropping their prices. If we factored those out, and just did avg and median price graphs for the avg/median price ranges (say, +/- 10%), you’d see an entirely different price graph. There’s MANY neighborhoods which are still appreciating and selling quickly in nicer, newer areas (East Valley) within that price range. When a $10mil property drops it’s price $600k or more, that completely effects the median price range we’re soo commonly quoted in the media. Most likely, that’s why we’ve seen a $30k drop in median price over the last 2 years.

• 7 John Wake - Real Estate // Dec 15, 2007 at 8:48 am

  I take your point that within the same area there are different markets, the less expensive homes may be selling well while the more expensive homes are selling poorly… or vice versa.

  The median price can decline in an area because people shift towards less expensive homes. So the median price can decline when home prices are flat just because the less expensive homes are selling better.

  But that’s not what is happening in these graphs above. The technique they use is to look at repeat sales of the same home. This technique gives the best estimate of the actual appreciation in an area.

  The example you give of a $10mil property would not affect the median home price much or at all but it would affect this “Repeat Sale Index” if a lot of homes were sold at lower prices.

  And lower prices aren’t good or bad economically. They are good for home buyers and bad for home sellers.

• 8 REI Pipeline // Dec 15, 2007 at 9:34 am

  Ahhh, ok- that makes sense. I haven’t read the entire document yet, but will do so today. You’re finding some great info! Good job!!!

• 9 Cbass // Dec 15, 2007 at 4:43 pm

  All I see from these graphs is just how laughable the period begining in 04 to end of 05 just really was. To many people were watching late night infomercials w/ Carlton Sheets instead of sleeping at night. I don’t think Phx realestate was that undervalued prior to 04 so there was no rationale other than a “bubble” or “mania” for the run up. Maybe some areas will be hit harder than others but all areas will be affected whether in Scottsdale or in Buckeye so why buy now? Until inventory starts to really shrink because sales have picked up then the trend will continue and there is no pressure to buy. I guess I am just a “bubble head” though.

• 10 jetjock // Dec 16, 2007 at 6:53 pm

  In my humble opinion, I think that given the long term trend line for Phoenix area real estate which shows average annual appreciation of 5-6 percent over the past 17 years, the entire market has a long ways to fall OR, you will be looking at the next several years with zero appreciation until the prices and long term trend line meet once again (similar to the stock market). I personally do not intend to buy anywhere near the current asking prices. Sellers need a continuing dose of reality.

• 11 John Wake - Real Estate // Dec 16, 2007 at 7:22 pm

  My guess is that the Case-Shiller numbers will show a depreciation for Phoenix of about 10% for 2007. [The ASU RSI will be less, perhaps 7% to 8%.]

  Let’s say 2008 will be similar.

  After that the metro area will not be very over-priced. A few years with little or no appreciation would bring prices back in line.

  This doesn’t mean that you can’t find homes priced extremely well right now, individual homes with limited downside potential.

  More and more often I’m seeing homes sold at prices that surprise me.

  For example, there is a condo conversion in Scottsdale that in my opinion was extremely well done, that is offering a few close-out units at $139,000 (not studios). That price surprises me.

• 12 MPS // Dec 17, 2007 at 1:44 am

  As the corporations continue to ship any job they can overseas and hire illegals here at home we will have no home price appreciation.

  It is now apparent to me that the recent housing boom was artificially created by the government and the banks. It was like giving the economy crystal meth. After it’s high it must crash unless they find a new drug. Sure there are lots of jobs in Phoenix but they don’t pay very well. They don’t pay enough to support these home prices.

  As I posted early last month the first sure sign of the recesion looming will be the dud for the retailers this xmas. And a dud it has been. 3/4ths of our economy is consumer spending and that’s our last leg.

  Corporate America is in bed with the U.S. government and they’ve sold this country out for the benefit of the elite super rich.

  The sooner everyone realizes that this housing market will not bounce back the better off we will be. No amount of realtor pumping will stop the inevitable. We’ve been had for at least a decade. The tax system is corrupt, social security fund has been squandered and the war is a big failure. If you’re not well off already it’s not going to happen under the current corrupt system. Upward mobility is dead. We need new leadership.

  I’m registering Democrat and voting for Obama! He’s the only one who gives me hope, and apparently Oprah too.

• 13 Brian McMorris // Dec 17, 2007 at 6:00 am

  To MPS: I agree with your points of logic, but would like to see you keep the emotion and politics for a different site. John W has run a clean and thoughtful blog, with a minimum of ranting / raving and I would like to see it stay that way.

  But yes, some (most?) realtors are cheerleaders and tend to believe in perpetual upward motion (present company excluded). The “pumpers” have done the industry a disservice in the long run, though they and the mortgage brokers certainly did very well in the short run.

  And yes, I agree with the argument that many new and old jobs in the Valley are lower paying service work. Those people have been priced out of the market now that super-creative financing is gone.

  The argument that the Valley is a great place to retire and that retirees will bring their wealth with them to prop up the market is also erroneous. The wealthy leave their riches behind, invested in businesses / assets / foundations from whence they came. They bring with them enough money to buy a very nice home with furnishings, a car or three, some social memberships and enough to go out regularly for dinner.

  This pays for those lower paying service jobs, but is not enough to change the economics of greater Phoenix or add high paying jobs needed to finance $300K plus homes. So, Canadians and others retiring to the Valley will not be the salvation of local real estate market. Only lower prices will get sales moving again.

• 14 AZ Short Sales // Dec 17, 2007 at 7:21 am

  Well I have a number of comments here. Yes, it’s no secret that our government is corrupt. I believe the US & population as a whole had it’s first wake-up call to that when JFK was assassinated. It’s a known fact that Social Security won’t be around in 30 years. Oil is going to be dried up, etc etc. However, I still say God Bless the USA- we still live in an amazing country, compared to many others out there.

  Yes, Realtors® are cheerleaders- we have to be to provide food for our families, and maintain a positive attitude. HOWEVER- we’re just as much cheerleaders as the media are doom and gloom to sell their papers and advertising/commercials. The amount of cheerleaders out there still doesn’t balance out the amount of media hype going on- twisting the real numbers and facts of the market. Spinning headlines to sell papers. So to me, you can choose to condone the cheerleaders, but if you’re buying into the media doom and gloom, you’re really not better off than we. I always say, there’s three sides to every story, his, hers, and the truth. It’s not much different in respect to the market.

  Lastly, to the comment about not making money/wealth in this economy. Well, that’s completely ridiculous. That rings of the same thinking that got many wannabe ‘investors’ where they are today- in foreclosure. Sure, it’s EASY when the market is heading straight up. Lie about your income on a loan app, buy some property, sit for a little but and then throw it back on the market for big profits. However, the shakedown comes when the economy shifted and everyone got stuck hanging their ‘assets’ in the wind. Now everyone runs back to the stock market hoping for the next easy buck, and it’s not there.

  Here’s what I find funny. In the 80s, the Great Savings and Loan crash hit everyone hard. However, you never hear abut the $80BILLION made in the real estate market during that time. Same thing in the 90’s.

  If you know much about the stock market and trading- when the dot-com boom busted in 2000-2001, all you hear about is all the money that was lost. No one ever talks about the BILLIONS made during that time from knowing how to trade stock (shorting stocks, buying puts, playing the bears). Yes, people made BILLIONS on those companies when their stock prices crashed. Same thing in the Great Depression, btw.

  September 11, 2001- same thing. The market crashed, and all you hear about is the massive amounts of money that was lost. But, do you ever hear about the billions that were gained during that time? No one dares to speak about it, but it happened. IN FACT, JUST AS MUCH MONEY WAS MADE DURING THOSE TIMES AS WAS LOST, IF NOT MORE. Shocking, isn’t it? Don’t believe me? Research trading stocks/options and playing the bears or ‘down market’. Sure, you can just walk in, buy some stock, and sit and wait for the prices to rise. However, the ones making TRUE wealth are traders. It’s not any different in Real Estate.

  So you talk about today’s Real Estate market, and how no one’s making any money, building wealth, etc. We all have to wait until the next big boom to have a chance at it. I laugh at that logic. There are soo many deals out there right now, it’s insane. The amount of short sales, foreclosures, bankruptcies, REOs- they’re sky rocketing, and people are making some BIG profits. All the educated and intelligent investors are getting in NOW, and making tons and tons of money. NOW is the time that many are building their wealth. When everyone else is running back to stocks and their 401ks, the intelligent ones are running back into Real Estate. In fact, many of my investor clients made their wealth in those times I mentioned above. Are they bad, sick, and wrong? Nope. If it wasn’t for them buying a house out of foreclosure, there’d be many, many more families homeless on the streets today. If you think these guys are ambulance chasers capitalizing on others’ misfortunes, well- look at the facts. If I didn’t buy my last flip out of foreclosure, this family would’ve been living on the street- literally. The bank would’ve foreclosed, and lost about $80k on the transaction, which, is directly passed off to our economy. One transaction, and you have the potential of an $80k loss and a family becoming homeless. Or, someone purchase the property, flip it for good profits, saves a family and most of the banks’ losses- I think that’s a fair play. I could go on and on, but I think you get the point here.

  I invite you to shift your thinking and realize the opportunities that lie in front of you. If you want to follow the heard and media hype, go ahead. But you can’t complain about the results you receive after the choices you make. Shifting your thinking and being open to other possibilities will change your life.

• 15 John Wake - Real Estate // Dec 17, 2007 at 8:02 am

  Well, Greenspan’s thinking about a 50-50 chance of recession which supports part of MPS’s pessimism. And he’s talking about some wild bailout scheme. http://www.reuters.com/article/bankingFinancial/idUSN1636789220071217?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0

  Greenspan is one of the biggest causes of the boom. He lowered interest rates too far and then because he didn’t want to admit his mistake, took too long to start raising interest rates. That wasn’t that only factor of course. There was a global real estate boom in countries with varying monetary policies.

• 16 Brian McMorris // Dec 17, 2007 at 9:52 am

  AZ Short Sales - what a bunchy of hooey! Buying property out of foreclosure to flip for a profit in this market?! (with you as the cheerleading realtor, I suppose). If that isn’t self promotion, I don’t know what is (I see that you have a link to your Alias).

  People who buy foreclosures right now, with the mentality of flipping, will be flipping for a loss, not a profit. MAYBE, it is possible to buy distressed property and hold as a rental for a long term profit. But if there was a market for the property above the price out of foreclosure, it would never have gotten there in the first place.

  Please find some other blog to ply your wares.

• 17 AZ Short Sales // Dec 17, 2007 at 10:44 am

  Brian- I really don’t want to get into a war here- but, you’re completely wrong. I flip 1-2 properties a month myself. Some of my clients are doing more or less than that. You’re very mistaken in the words you speak. It’s fairly easy to pick a property up for 70-80% value, throw some minimal costs into repairing and upgrading the property, and sell it for a nice profit. I have my clients aim to sell for 5-10% below value just to sell quickly. And yes, there IS a market for above the foreclosure price- but the key is UPGRADING IT so it’s the nicest house in the area for the cheapest price. No self-promotion, just the facts. Have you yourself ever tried to do this, or talked to anyone directly who is currently doing it? Or is your opinion just that, an opinion with no facts to back it up?

• 18 MPS // Dec 17, 2007 at 10:45 am

  Of course people with money can make money in bad markets by short selling, or buying foreclosures. I am not following any heard. The media is a big part of the problem. The media is corporate America. I don’t hear them saying on the morning news “our goverment is corrupt, my company just gave a boat load of cash to a lobyist who just hired and paid a huge sign on bonus to an excogressman who was writing every bill that benefited us when he was in office”. The political spin and the propaganda in the media has brain washed this country. Everyone is trying to stomp on each other thinking they can be the one to make the big bucks or whipping themselves saying only if I worked more hours or got that PHD. What happened to unions? A bachelors degree is like a high school diploma now except that it comes with a large debt.

  The fact is that unless you come from money the odds are against you ever “getting ahead”. Students come out of college with huge student loan and credit card debts and find that the job they had waiting tables pays more than what they can make working for the corporations and that raises will not keep up with inflation. The American dream is dead for most young people.

  Look at our tax system. What is the highest tax bracket today? What was it in 1960? Anyone with money knows how to avoid taxes. Corporations know how to avoid taxes. The IRS is forbidden to go after the rich.

  This is not ranting. This is all relevant to the housing market. Without a “tech boom”, a “housing boom” or some other boom what will keep our economy going?

  Recruiters are calling me with salary quotes that are equal to what I made 6 years ago, not adjusted for inflation.

  Home prices will settle at where they were six years ago. Not only are many people priced out now but without appreciation a big incentive to own is gone. There is no recovery in sight. Prices could and should drop back to early 2004 prices. It may take years.

  I’d rather it be quick and wake the American people up. What I’m saying is…without get rich quick “booms” going on the American people might start to take a look at the fundamentals and the direction of this country. And what they are going to see is nasty.

  I don’t care that Mexico is more corrupt or that our county is better than most. Lets stop making excuses for them. Lets make this country a country for everyone…not just Mr. Wall Street, Mr. CEO, and Mr. Born With It. “Trickle Down” economics is just a Trick.

• 19 AZ Short Sales // Dec 17, 2007 at 10:57 am

  Brian- just to add here- all flips profit $20-30k on average, that’s in the median price range house, in the East Valley. Not a bad profit for a $10-20k investment. It doesn’t sound like hooey to me as I’m seeing it done on a daily basis.

  John- I agree. There’s many factors that go into why the boom happened. And yes, we could be heading into a recession. To me, it’s pointless to dwell on the reasons behind why it all happened, unless you can directly effect the outcome. Otherwise, I choose to focus on what to do about it, what lessons can be learned from the results, and what can we do from this point forward?

  I believe 90% of the population is stuck on the ‘good old days’, wishing ‘they would’ve done’ this or that differently. Meanwhile, they’re too scared to make a move and do anything TODAY. They’re just going to sit back and wait for CNN to tell them what the rest of the population is doing, waiting for permission to think differently.

  That’s ok, too. I’m not condoning it, just merely offering some insight that it doesn’t have to be that way. There are many others out there taking action and building some serious wealth while the rest of the country waits. To each their own, I guess.

• 20 Scottsdale real estate // Dec 17, 2007 at 11:12 am

  Man, I find these stats you provide to really be invaluable for my everyday work. Thanks for doing a great job and please keep it up!

• 21 AZ Short Sales // Dec 17, 2007 at 11:17 am

  MPS- I agree with most of your points. I used to think the housing prices will be coming back down to 2004 prices. Honestly, in this moment in time, I’m not too sure anymore. I’ve seen strong data for both directions. So it’ll be interesting to see it play out.

  My question to you is- what do we do about it? The fact of the matter is- it is what it is. These are the results we have, how do we deal with them? How do I adapt the the state of the market now? How do I continue to build wealth for my retirement, my heirs, all while teaching my children/grandchildren the same, since I can’t depend on the country to do it for them?

  Let me throw this out here- look at California. Their housing prices are insane. The salaries certainly don’t justify the housing prices. Yet, the CA residents have all learned to deal with it. We can blame it on them being land-locked all we want- but the fact of the matter is, it doesn’t change anything. It’s been like that for a long time, with no changes. Live in Cali, expect to pay more for housing, plain and simple. Vegas is almost the same way now- they’re sort of landlocked as well. AZ, however, has only used 7% of it’s available land. So we’re far from being land-locked here. So, the question becomes, can we adapt to the higher cost of living here in AZ, without the salaries to support it- much like CA has? Or, will we just settle and accept the fact that housing costs more now than it used to, suck it up and deal with it (just like Cali does now)?

  Again- my point is this. What do we do about it? Yes, the boom was crazy. So what. When are we going to get over it and deal with it? Yes, there’s tons of foreclosures now. So what. Yes, the government has it’s problems. So what. Are these all the excuses I get to give my children? Or, can we actively do something about it and progress through life at the same time?

• 22 Andrew Upson // Dec 17, 2007 at 11:31 am

  Wow MPS. Why don’t you just give a link for the Socialist Party USA and save all the typing.

  Something like 90% of millionairs in this country are first generation wealthy. The left the cave, killed something, and dragged it home. It wouldn’t surprise me one bit if AZ Short Sales fit that description. People like that haven’t inherited wealth. They work hard, find the deals, and earn it.

  You make it sound like the “rich” should be punished for having wealth and high incomes by reverting to the punitive tax system of the early 1960’s. No thank you. I’m on the way up, and the last thing I want to see is myself, or anyone above me on the income ladder punished for their success.

  Rather than trying to drag “the rich” down why not work on raising yourself and those around you up?

  BTW, you are on some level correct about the paltry raises given by many companies out there. BUT, that’s why I’ve jumped jobs twice now since graduating from college. With the bumps in pay from the jumps I’ve averaged about 8% annual raises.

• 23 Kristen // Dec 17, 2007 at 12:02 pm

  Poor MPS. He’s bought into lefty-style secular apocalypticism and actually believes the ol’ Marxist class envy crap as taught in grad school. Pity.

  While you gloom-and-doom, some of us are working hard, dear, and we weren’t born of money either. No mythicial, meanie corporations are keeping us from doing well. Increasing income made our student loans past history (I, personally, had about 70K in loans from grad degrees at Yale and U of Chicago). In my wee opinion, the successful triumvirate is 1) quick thinking, 2) a gut-level, realisitic assessment of how the economy and society really work, and 3) clear-headed optimism.

  Optimism alone will trump 1930s-era pessimism and class envy.

  One more thing. We get recruiter calls on a weekly basis and the hinted salaries are MUCH better than they were last year … but then again, we have an entirely different attitude and worldview.

  Kristen

• 24 MPS // Dec 17, 2007 at 2:30 pm

  Dear Kristen. What exactly are you saying? Do you think that you’ve succeeded due to your great work ethic and if everyone was as dedicated, optomistic, quick thinking, and diligent as you we would all have degrees from Yale? You are royalty and we should be your pawns? Or wait, what if things got flipped? I am bigger, stronger faster and more agressive than you so you should be my pawn. Why not? You love the game because the game was titled in your favor. Don’t be so self absorbed. There is nothing wrong with allowing the rest of the folks to make a living, even if they are not as brilliant and amazing as you, princess. There is plenty to go around here and plenty to go around in many other countries that make the U.S. look like a model for perfection.

  Second, I’m no socialist. I’m not talking about people who are “doing well”. Being a millionare does not mean you are in the elite. In fact that would probably put you in the upper middle class depending on your age group.

  Do you believe it was also wrong to outlaw monopolies?

  I’m talking about the elite. The super wealthy. A company I worked for recently paid a 50 million bonus to each of three employees last year. That could have been more than a 10,000 raise for every single person working for the company. Many of who live in poverty. That same company pollutes the environment and scams their customers. When they get caught they admit no guilt and settle out of court. When they don’t get caught only the community pays. They have risk managment and high dolloar attornies to find the loop holes.

  I’m not saying put an 80% tax bracket at 200K or even 1 million. But maybe 5 mil or even 10. I mean, if you can’t be happy earnging 1 million a year is 100 million going to do it for you? Having 80% taken right off the top would sure take the incentive away from the greed mongers.

  Corporations were not formed to be only about the bottom line and the bottom line to only serve the insane greed of an elite group. Corporations were formed to serve a purpose that benefited society.

  Lobby groups with big bucks do not represent a democracy. Who decided what to lobby for? The employees? No. Was there a vote held in the corporation? No. When did it become true that having money made you right?

  I think if you look back through histroy you’ll find that it was exactly the opposite.

  Basicly the middle class is being pushed into poverty. Not everyone can be a doctor or a lawyer. Not everyone can raise the cash to start flipping houses. Things are becoming too unbalanced. Wealth is not being distributed at all. It is getting worse every year.

  That is why we will not be seeing a “rebound” in the housing market. There are not enough people left who can come up with 20% down and afford the payments. Giving 0% down stated income loans is no more as are these artificially inflated prices. My houses included. Buh bye to my equity.

  Here is what must be done to return to a healthy economy:

  Revise or abolish trade acts that are only benefiting the corporations bottom lines, govern the lobby system to stop congressmen from selling out for that job when they leave office, fix the broken tax system to return to a real graduated taxation, bigger penalties for corporate corruption including life sentences in a regular prison, close the border and punish harshly for hiring of illegals, raise the cap on social security tax, or uncap it, with a donought hole.

  I could go on…but again my point is that there is a much larger problem here than a little investor speculative buying and greedy builders.

• 25 AZ Short Sales // Dec 17, 2007 at 3:04 pm

  LOL. Wow. There’s no victims in this discussion, huh? FYI- when I started flipping houses, I was $45k in credit card debt, no job, mortgage payments due, and about another $40k in other debts I owed. And no, my family has NO money- I don’t come from money, never had it ‘handed’ to me either. I worked hard for it. Educated myself, and executed on a daily basis. I’ve sacrificed, took a huge leap of faith to my career path I’m in now, and it’s worked well for me. I don’t feel sorry for people who point the blame, play victim to their situation, all while never putting their butt on the line to make a change. To hear you say that only wealthy people can afford to flip houses makes me laugh. Hard.

  MPS- I’m curious. What makes you soo qualified to be able to *fix* our country with all these suggestions you’re stating? Do you have any evidence or proven theories to back up your opinions? Have you been educated in these areas of discussion? It’s ok to have an opinion about thing- shoot, we all do. But you seem very certain of yours, and I’d like to hear if there’s any validity to it.

  I really don’t want to drag out any kind of war here on John’s site. I will probably politely bow out of this discussion after this. I believe everyone’s intentions and true colors have been uncovered. I hope others reading will at least learn that pointing fingers and blame at problems doesn’t resolve anything. It’s what action you take to make a change in your own life, as well as others.

  MPS- what actions have you taken towards all these problems you’re pointing the blame to? Or, are you just sitting there, pointing your finger in others’ directions? I’m not attacking you- please don’t take it that way. I’m sincerely asking if you’ve taken any actions yourself, or, if you’re just playing the blame/self-pity game? A wise man once told me that when you point the finger at someone else, you have to notice the 3 fingers pointing back directly at YOU…

• 26 MPS // Dec 17, 2007 at 3:59 pm

  Short, How could you buy and flip a house with no money? Would love to give it a try.

  First, I’ve never labeled myself a victim. I think I’m doing just fine. I have everything I want. However, I do believe that I should be much more ahead than I am. I’ve done time in the military, worked very hard, taken risks, moved all over the country and it’s paid off a little. I’d expected better but I don’t feel like a victim.

  I was born with a brain that comprehends complex problems. On the SAT test I scored in the very top in Math and reasoning. Math and logic came easy for me. (Obviously I don’t write quite as well.)

  I tutored math all through college and I can tell you that some people just can’t do it. They would sit with tutors for hours and hours and still not do well.

  These are the victims. The kids who just can’t get into Yale, get the degree in Electrical Engineering or handle a nursing program. The kids who can’t make it through college. Not because they don’t work hard but because they’re just not born with the mind or because their upbringing stunted their mental growth somewhere along the way.

  The victims are all around me. It seems everyone I know in my age group from the late 20s to the early 30s is broke. Not only those who couldn’t get the bachelors degree but those that have. And that’s without trying to raise a family. Our age group is putting that off.

  What makes me qualified to fix our country? I did’t say those were my ideas. I read alot. I’ve worked for fortune 100 or 500 companies since I got out of school. I’ve seen alot. But mostly, it’s because I read. I’m not good at remembering data and quoting facts. I usually can’t even remember an authors name or the title. But I beleive I have very solid reasoning. And what I’ve read has led me to believe what I believe today. Digging into our tax laws and the history of the IRS, digesting facts, seeing with my own eyes the pay scales of so many of the big corporations, knowing what real estate costs and using a calculator. Seeing places like Detroit first hand. But mostly just reading books and thinking about it.

  So many things don’t make sense. Why are executives alloud to “defer” unlimited amounts of compensation in garunteed high interest bearing accounts until they want it or any portion of it. While the rest of us must use the 401K and invest right back into corporations. If we need to take it out we are penalized. We have a limit of how much we can put in. Doesn’t make sense at all. I could go on and on about the tax laws. About how the IRS doesn’t go after the rich. About tax shelters etc etc.

  This is what I’m doing about it. I’m spreading the word. I got you curious…”what is this guy talking about, what does he know?”

  Why does he say vote for Obama?

  Here’s one..read this book “perfectly legal” david cay johnston. Or “war on the middle class my Lou Dobbs” Most of what he says makes perfect sense.

  I didn’t say you were born with money..I just said it’s hard to raise the money to do a flip. It’s very risky, especially if you have no experience…..even for litle Ms. Yale.

• 27 Ken44 // Dec 17, 2007 at 4:08 pm

  –Let me throw this out here- look at California. Their housing prices are insane. The salaries certainly don’t justify the housing prices. Yet, the CA residents have all learned to deal with it. We can blame it on them being land-locked all we want- but the fact of the matter is, it doesn’t change anything. It’s been like that for a long time, with no changes. Live in Cali, expect to pay more for housing, plain and simple. Vegas is almost the same way now- they’re sort of landlocked as well. AZ, however, has only used 7% of it’s available land. So we’re far from being land-locked here. So, the question becomes, can we adapt to the higher cost of living here in AZ, without the salaries to support it- much like CA has? Or, will we just settle and accept the fact that housing costs more now than it used to, suck it up and deal with it (just like Cali does now)?–

  There it is,

  For all the talk about prices crashing in a San Deigo you can still expect to pay at $400,000 for home in a crummy school district and gang tags on the walls of almost every local store.

• 28 John Wake - Real Estate // Dec 17, 2007 at 4:13 pm

  AZ Short Sales,

  This is a numbers crowd. Why don’t you give us an address of a recent flip and a brief play by play of what you did to the house. I can verify the purchase and sale prices. That will help focus the conversation on what is actually being done in today’s market.

  Thanks.

• 29 Brian McMorris // Dec 17, 2007 at 4:42 pm

  Thanks John….I was just about to suggest the same. If AZ Short is actually getting flips done in today’s market, with very little down and big profits after costs, I want to know the details. Maybe I will give it a try.

  As for MPS, I am getting a little love for him. He is thinking with his heart and not his head, though. There is no big conspiracy (the Kennedy reference confirms that MPS is a conspiracy fan). I have to tell my 20 year old son this all the time.

  In this country, if you don’t like taxes, laws, businesses, the way they are, you vote to make a change. Everyone has an equal vote. If MPS likes Obama, it is his right to promote Obama as his man (just not on this real estate site, please). I could like Obama, too, though think he is much more practical and realistic than MPS, so might disappoint MPS with his tax policy and approach to businesses.

  We all hate the inequalities in this country and should do our best to change them. But from what I know, there is no better system on the face of the earth to get those changes made.

• 30 MPS // Dec 17, 2007 at 4:44 pm

  Ken44, Yes, San Diego has always been expensive, but it hasn’t always been as expensive. Read this:

  http://piggington.com/bubble

  People are also leaving San Diego because of the housing prices. The population is shrinking.

• 31 MPS // Dec 17, 2007 at 4:45 pm

  http://piggington.com/bubble

  read this: piggington dot com forward slash bubble

• 32 AZ Short Sales // Dec 17, 2007 at 4:50 pm

  MPS- let me backup here. I apologize for the victim comment. However, I have to say that a number of your statements come across that way. For example- you stated ‘the rest of us must use the 401K and invest right back into corporations’. Are you REALLY required to do that? What if, you could take that money and throw it into a Real Estate deal. If it’s a good deal, I could bet that the deal far out performs your 401k, anyday. Some of your comments are slanted to how the goverment gives the rich tax breaks. Well, if you choose to look at it that way, you’re right. But does that mean you can’t take advantage of them yourself? Does that mean you can’t start thinking the way the ‘rich’ do, acting the way the ‘rich’ do, and take advantage of the systems our government has set up for you. If you tell me any reason why you can’t do it, why you can’t be like them, think like them, have the opportunities like them, then there’s your victim mentality. As stated before, most of this country’s wealthy created it themselves- rags to riches type stories. There’s many, many out there, if you dig a little you’ll find them easily. If you enjoy reading- have you read ‘Rich Dad, Poor Dad’ by Robert Kiyosaki? The ‘Richest Man in Babylon’? The ‘Millionaire Maker’s Guide to…’ (there’s a few of them in a series now). I’m really not plugging my site at all- but- if you click my link, go to the library section, you’ll see a good assortment of books that will possibly open you up to other possibilities. That’s if you’re open to other options…

  Ummm- I really don’t want to hi-jack John’s site here, so I’ll keep this short. There’s many, MANY ways to flip houses with little or no money. In fact, I didn’t start using some of my money on deals until about the 4th year of doing it. And even since then, in all total, I’ve used my own money/credit in MAYBE 10 deals total (of the 200+ I’ve done in the past 7 years). The way I usually did it- partner the deals with other people who have the money. You can get into owner finance type deals as well. I promise you, it’s not as tough as you think. Believe me, I’ve been there, done that. I started when I was 24-ish, and I’m 32 now.

  John- I’ve been real hesitant opening myself up like that- but, I HAVE been meaning to post on my own site about a deal I did not too long ago this year. I have no problems with you pulling it up on tax records and checking it out. Give me a day or two, I’ll write up a post, throw it on my blog, and you can verify it. Here’s the basics- Tempe, 3/2. I bought it from a wholesaler (of all people- a competitor! But, it was a great deal nonetheless). If memory serves, I paid $180k for the thing. The wholesaler got $5k for an assignment fee (out of the purchase price), and his wife was a Realtor- so she spanked a commission as well. All total, I guess he nailed about $10k or so from the deal himself. I want to say I put $25k into the thing (someone else’s money), if I remember right. I sold it in 2 hours roughly. We actually negotiated the contract back and forth for a few days- but- within 2 hours of going on MLS, I had a contract on the thing. 2 hours in this market! My optimistic comps were at about $270k, I sold it for $262k, with $5k in buyer’s closing costs- so roughly $258k or so. Profits? $20-30k all said and done. Contractors did all the work, I just paid them and picked out the materials. Not too bad, if I do say so myself. In fact, I’ll email you offlist the address and you can verify. I’d appreciate you not posting the specific address publicly for now- but I trust that your readers will trust your word.

  MPS- I sincerely apologize if I offended you here, certainly not trying to take away any of your achievements in life. Believe me, I’m not any better than anyone else out there. However, I do believe that a simple change in attitude will open up worlds of possibilities that you’ve never known in your life.

• 33 AZ Short Sales // Dec 17, 2007 at 5:01 pm

  ok- just re-checked… I actually paid $185k for the house, including a $5k assignment fee to the wholesaler (who, btw- made an easy $10k and didn’t have $1 in the deal). I sent the info to John and I’m sure he’ll post the days on market, purchase price, sales price. I’ll give blow by blow details in my blog within the week.

  Let’s make sure we don’t pollute John’s site with off topic discussions, and keep it on the market.

• 34 MPS // Dec 17, 2007 at 5:01 pm

  Brian, I didn’t say that there was any conspiracy. Someone else brought up Kennedy. The problem is really quite simple and it’s probably just natural, not some well thought out attack (Lou Dobbs’ book is much better than the title). Some people just don’t know when enough is enough and a few bad seeds can ruin things for everyone. It’s greed and its unneccesary. There’s plenty to go around. There will always be rich and there will always be poor. The problem I’m talking about (which is the biggest influence on the housing market that exists) is the sqaushing down of the middle class. Anyone who is willing to work hard and put in his hours should be able to earn a livable wage. Consumers are 3/4ths of this economy, the middle class being the greatest portion of the consumers. You choke them out and you ruin things for everyone. If the middleclass can no longer afford to buy a modest home and a safe neighborhood then what happens next? Well, my guess is that prices drop. And dropping they are.

• 35 AZ Short Sales // Dec 17, 2007 at 5:14 pm

  Here’s my insight as to one thing that’s working in this market. Offering the buyers a property they cannot refuse. There’s still buyers out there guys- they just have a ton to choose from. So, make it impossible to refuse to purchase your home. How? Price. Upgrades. Ease of closing/terms. Bonuses. Fix up a $200k house with amenities that a $400k house has (granite counters, large showers/closets, upgraded cabinets, new 2-tone paint, new flooring, perfect landscaping) etc. Throw in FREE stainless steel appliances. Drop your price to 5-10% BELOW anyone else in the area. Give them closing costs. Basically, package the deal so that there are NO other options that even compare to your house, and get the price cheaper than anyone else. Help them with financing if you have to. This works. And yes, this all costs money. That’s why you buy a good deal with instant equity- more than enough to cover the costs. Everything else is bread/butter profits for you. Or, you can wholesale deals out yourself, not sink a dime into them, and flip them to investors who do all the above themselves… Make sense? Don’t get me wrong- it’s hard work. There’s no glamour or ease to it, contrary to what the TV Shows paint. But, it IS profitable, it IS working in this market…

• 36 AZ Short Sales // Dec 17, 2007 at 5:19 pm

  MPS- you act as if the middle class has no options than to work for people in an underpaid job. Everyone has the same opportunities here, it’s what YOU CHOOSE TO DO WITH THEM that’s the difference. They can change jobs. Move somewhere more ‘affordable’ and get a better paying job. You can educate yourself so that you can work up the corporate ladder and get those higher paying jobs you’re mentioning. You can start your own business and be your own boss. You can play the lottery or live at the poker tables. There’s countless ways out there, but NO ONE forces you into the life you live, except yourself.

  BTW- I made the JFK comment. I’m not getting into that- just brought it up to paint an example- hope I didn’t ruffle any feathers.

• 37 Cbass // Dec 17, 2007 at 5:19 pm

  market at a glance?

• 38 AZ Short Sales // Dec 17, 2007 at 5:20 pm

  BTW- did I mention that you can become a REALTOR® and make as little or as much money as you want to make?

• 39 MPS // Dec 17, 2007 at 5:20 pm

  Short, I’ve read those books. Robert Kiyosaki’s Rich Dad and Cash Flow Quadrant can be summed up in 10 pages as I recall. They teach good fundamental money management. However, what you have to understand is that I don’t care to be rich. Kiyosaki kind of preaches greed. Get get get get everything you can. I don’t need a bunch of material stuff. I’d like to own a modest home without having money on the brain 24 hours a day. A couple rentals will be a good part of my nest egg.

  As far as flipping houses with someone elses money..it sounds nice. Please put me in contact with these folks. I don’t know anyone with that kind of money. I would much rather flip houses than go back to another miserable cubicle. Ok..this is taking up too much of my time. Have a nice week folks.

• 40 AZ Short Sales // Dec 17, 2007 at 5:27 pm

  haha- ok, good luck with everything, MPS. Just remember, you, and only you, are in charge of your life and results. You have created exactly everything you have right now, and will have (or not have) in the future. Thanks for the interesting dialog.

• 41 John Wake - Real Estate // Dec 17, 2007 at 5:47 pm

  Okay, AZ Short Sales sent me an address of a recent flip. He doesn’t want me to reveal the address to prevent people from reverse engineering his entire business.

  Purchase: May 2007. Sold for $180,000. 6 days on the market. Southeast Valley, built 1960-1965, 1300-1350 sqft, 3 bed, 2 bath, original list price $195,000. Advertised as a total “fixer.” Bought by an LLC.

  Sale: August 2007. Sold for $260,000. 3 days on the market. Listed for $270,000. Fully remodeled with dual pane low-E windows, hardwood floors, new carpets, granite countertops, stainless steel appliances, etc.

  I don’t know what he put into it, but there is a lot of room for profit in that $80,000 spread.

  Guys, AZ Short Sales is not bullshitting you.

  And it’s my opinion that it’s a lot easier to find a good deal now than it was last spring.

• 42 Brian McMorris // Dec 17, 2007 at 6:43 pm

  MPS

  Re: the real estate tragedy of the middle to lower class….agreed in bold. But, it is not a conspiracy of big business and government that got us to that point…it is the residue of poorly thought-out policy and practice of government (allowing / encouraging the ridiculous, no-down teaser loans / statements by our Fed Chairman Greenspan that ARMs were the way for home buyers to go / our Fed Chairman dropping interest rates beyond reason to prime the economy), along with the greed of SMALL home buyers / investors (the flippers and frauds who ran up the price of real estate through excessive demand and outright criminality; it sounds though AZ Short may be legitimately making the world a better place, so he would be excluded from this crowd).

  So, it is not big bad business and goverment, but bleeding-heart government and small, misled investors cum business people that has screwed up the real estate market. I will give you that the banks were/are greedy, but they are getting their come-upance for their part in the tragedy. Greed is part of our capitalist system, and we have to take the bad with the good of it, and in spite of your misgivings, punish those who step over the line when we can (think Enron).

  Still, we have seen this movie before, and thankfully, in this country, it always ends up a happy story….

  But, I encourage you to campaign for your man to make changes that please the majority…that is what makes this a great country!

• 43 AZ Short Sales // Dec 17, 2007 at 6:50 pm

  Hey thanks for the confirmation John. I really thought I sold it for $262k (well, that was contract price, but I gave either $5k or $3k to the buyer for closing costs). But yes, there’s the facts either way. Like I said before, I’ll post more details on that flip on my site, and update here so you guys can read it. It was a fun flip- did some VERY usual things, but it all helped the house to sell quickly. I gotta say, it was one of the only houses in the area with a walk-in dual head (overhead/ceiling mounted) slate shower, hardwood floors, granite tops, ss appliances. Oh man- you GOT TO see the sinks and faucets I put in this thing! They were SOO COOL. You won’t believe where I got them, too. ok- I’m getting excited to share. I’ll post in the next few days pictures and details.

  Getting back on topic here- yes, the market might be challenging, if you’re not open to change. The key to surviving any market is being flexible and able to adapt to what’s working NOW. In fact, I think every business man out there will tell you the same thing. No market is perfect. There’s always more buyers than sellers, or vice versa. Every market is different, and constantly changing. Doesn’t matter if it’s Real Estate, Stocks, Tanning Salons, Fast Food- it’s constantly changing. The successful ones know how to adapt and keep moving forward. And believe me, that’s been a tough, hard learned lesson in my life, that’s for sure. I’m sure John can attest to this as well. So what are you going to do differently tomorrow???

• 44 Brian McMorris // Dec 17, 2007 at 7:06 pm

  Okay, this is my last post on this thread…John, is this a record yet?

  AZ Short…I want to apologize for my suspicsion but must say you look legit. What you are doing is more than flipping. Fixing a place up and making it high end is a good idea…though would require some attention to location…couldn’t put that kind of upgrade in anywhere and make it work out.

  I am quite curious where you find a $140/sq ft. property today in a neighborhood that supports $200/sq ft. Sounds like a good resource. Anyway, good luck…I do like your positivity.

• 45 AZ Short Sales // Dec 17, 2007 at 7:41 pm

  Brian- Thanks, no apology needed. If I was East Coast I’d say ‘fuhgeddaboudit’. To be honest, the location doesn’t matter all that much. It does, but not as much as you think. And, for the record- I’ve done maybe 5 deals tops that required this much rehab. Most of the other 200-300 deals have been paint, carpet, maybe new cabinets at the most. So with that said, the deals are everywhere out there. You just have to be serious about doing it. I’m sure John could help you locate some, and if not, he could ‘refer’ you over to me and I could help you as well (John hopefully understand this process, I would never want to recruit any business away from him. But, he could ‘refer’ a buyer to me and I would gladly pay him for that). The deals are out there guys, even if you’re not looking to flip- but want a rental property, or, a chance to upgrade your own home- now’s the time to be buying! Like I said, talk to John about all the opportunities out there, there’s PLENTY to go around!!!

• 46 Kristen // Dec 17, 2007 at 8:02 pm

  Jeez, I go to bake Christmas cookies with my kids and in the interim, MPS implodes right here on this blog! I really don’t have time to respond in full, so here is a sketchy response.

  It is frankly laughable that you think Ivy degrees are royalty. Perhaps this was the case a few decades ago, but most Yalies are ordinary, hard-working and .. yes, very smart. And yes, also, if any smart person — including you! — doggedly persued a Yale degree, he or she could have it. This is the nature of a meritocracy, and although ours is imperfect, it works pretty well.

  I’m covered with flour and laughing at the notion that you think I’m “royalty.” No way. It is only when I got off my surfboard and took a year to study that I started the upward trajectory. I’ll play pawn to your king. Who cares.

  Success or failure seems to have very little to do with the fact that some people may not be paying taxes. Many succeed even if the tax system is imperfect. Again, this imperfect political system works well enough for ordinary people like you and me to live in reasonable comfort. Also, the number of super-millionaires who take huge year-end paychecks has virtually NO economic impact on you or me. We can succeed or fail without regard.

  Some monopolies should be outlawed, to answer your question. What comes to mind are the railroads of the 19th century … and the post office of the 21st. The Microsoft case in the mid-1990s was fascinating in this regard.

  A long time ago I read a few books on the history of incorporation. A fun read. WHat I recall, now, is that corporations are, essentially, a way of allowing people to own and transfer shares, reducing legal liability in some manner, and allowing businesses to outlast its owners (perpetuation.) In this sense, the government, too, is a corporation. Rather than think of the few greedy managers, I prefer to remember the millions of hopeful investors or shareholders.

  The middle class isn’t being pushed into poverty! No way. Remember, class boundaries are not static and people flow in and out of economic classes. And to the point of this blog — finally!!!! — real estate investment and ownership is ONE way of floating upward in the ever-changing economic stew. You can make money by taking a big risk and betting wisely. I did, and so have many readers of this blog. And that’s the point. Information, like the info we get here, allows us to make informed decisions. Economic decisions. Different points of view combine together to make a more nuanced decision. This is why I read this blog.

  Lastly, of course there will be a rebound in the housing market. It is cyclical. The question is merely “when,” not “if.” In the meantime, there is money to be made in real estate, but a lot hard work goes into finding those deals. Big risk is involved and failure is a real possibility, as is success.

  I read many different sites, not merely the “doomer” sites. I’ve learned that people are flipping, buying and selling. Successful people assume that ordinary American can buy houses, which, of course, they continue to do.

  I’m only about five or so years older than you and I know more people who are happy with their lives than unhappy. Frankly, money isn’t the biggest factor: a good marriage, children, an outward gaze, a pleasant neighborhood, a few books and warm fire seem to be part of the recipe for a good life. A challenging and satisfying job helps too, but money … people can be content with enough.

  Maybe its not about taxes, corporations and money but rather about a loving spouse, laughter and a long walk in the desert.

  Just a thought.

  Gotta put the kids to bed so I’ll close with “Merry Christmas” to you and I hope your fortunes change.

  Kristen

• 47 MPS // Dec 17, 2007 at 9:15 pm

  Kristen, I called you royalty because you are on a high horse. I could care less what fancey school you got a degree from. Just because you and your friends have succeeded you assume that it is the same for those 10 years younger than you and you assume that everyone should be able to be just like you.

  If you’re so smart you should realize that you cannot project your life onto everyone else’s. That is an ignorant and dangerous way to think.

  There are serious problems with the system and weather or not you have been challenged by them does not change this fact. These problems are causing hardships for many hard working honest people today. Just because you don’t rub shoulders with them doesn’t mean that they do not exist.

  Princess was out surfing while I’ll was in the military at age 17. That was the only way I saw out of the hell hole I grew up in. Going to Yale was never ever a realistic possiblity for me. Tell me, what did your parents do? Where did you grow up?

  You’ve not countered even a single point that I’ve discussed. Basically what you’ve said is that you’ve succeeded so there is no problems. Why so defensive?

  What I’m saying is vote for a man who is daring to be different and use his brain to improve this country instead of mold to the status quo.

  What I’m saying is that this real estate market is not bouncing back anytime soon because the middle class is being squashed. You think you are out of reach from these problems?

  Sure family life is all happy and fun when there’s food on the table, two cars on the garage, a pool in the backyard and a nice vacation to look forward too.

  But trust me its not so fun when a weeks worth of food must make it two weeks, the car is on its last leg, the mortgage is past due, the baby is sick and there’s no medical insurance for anyone.

• 48 AZ Short Sales // Dec 17, 2007 at 9:36 pm

  I’m bowing out of this conversation. One thing I know is that a victim mentality cannot be changed by anyone but the ‘victim’ themselves. This is obviously going nowhere fast, and not progressing forward. I will ping when I post details on that flip I did. Otherwise, I wish the rest of you Happy Holidays, best wishes to you all. And remember, you create your own reality, no matter what your circumstances are, what family economics you grew up in, what college you went to, which pipeline you surfed in, what company or boss you work for, what spouse you married, and most of all, what candidate you vote for. Your life is a direct result of your choices, perception, and actions. We have all been blessed with opportunities here in this life, it’s our duty to make the most of them and help to inspire and change others’ lives as well.

  I love this… via- Marianne Williamson

  “Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, and fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God. Your playing small doesn’t serve the world. There’s nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won’t feel insecure around you. We are all meant to shine, as children do. We are born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us. It’s not just in some of us, it’s in everyone. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others.”

• 49 John Wake - Real Estate // Dec 17, 2007 at 10:26 pm

  Come on guys, let’s stick to real estate.

  Focus!

  And yeah, Brian, this has gotta be the longest comment thread ever. Absolutely.

• 50 Andrew Upson // Dec 18, 2007 at 9:20 am

  MPS - Get over the “Woe is me” attitude. As Dave Ramsey would say, Your raise is effective when you are. Want to do better in this life, then work on it. Don’t look to anyone, Republican or Democrat, in Washington to solve your problems. The best that Washington can possibly do is nothing. It’s when they start trying to “help” that things get all fouled up. You’ll be in the same place in 5 years time that you are now unless you read some books, learn something new, and meet new people. And apply that knowledge to something useful.

  Regardless of the above - GO FRED!!!

  Anyway, I’m still glad that I’ve gotten out of the real estate market for now. I don’t have the stomach to flip and don’t really want to be a landlord at this point in my life. These graphs that John posts continue to remind me that I’m glad we got our home sold, and even made a touch of money in the process. I’ll get back into the market at some point, though since I don’t live in AZ anymore it won’t be there. Still kind of nice to keep up with things in the area though.

• 51 AZ Short Sales // Dec 18, 2007 at 12:44 pm

  ok guys- I posted a quick post w/ pictures of that flip we’ve been talking about. I’ve been having problems with my site, so I’ll be re-formatting later. I’ll also be posting #s up a little later to see purchase/sales prices, as well as costs… check it out- http://www.reipipeline.com/2007/12/18/fixer-upper-rehab-property-in-tempe-az-deal-results/#more-37

• 52 Cbass // Dec 18, 2007 at 12:53 pm

  “Market At A Glance”???

• 53 John Wake - Real Estate // Dec 18, 2007 at 1:46 pm

  Cbass, I’ve been working on a big project to graph sales within zip codes and I’ve put off the Phoenix Market at a Glance until there is a break in the action. I don’t want to lose momentum. It’s complex as hell using PHP, MySQL, Perl and a graphing program.

• 54 Cbass // Dec 18, 2007 at 5:38 pm

  Understandable John. I just was checking to make sure that the new chart would not be replacing the Market at a Glance. This is still a great snapshot of the market in general.

  Thanks John

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